Barack Obama

[rjk83]

Is a douchbag. (I think I'll be testing the limits of the "Anything Goes in here" label)

As a preface, I am a raging conservative (small government, low taxes, little to no entitlements). Oh, and I like my guns...

I've been reading a lot of news lately and for the past 6 months or so, I've been getting pissed at the state of our country. (I've actually thought about moving down to Texas if they would have kept up with the succession talk). I hear nothing but platitudes coming out of his mouth and he tries to placate everyone with the "Stimulus is working" talks and the "The economy is getting better" talks...

So great... Our president just said that they underestimated the economy and even super-liberals are saying that the stimulus isn't working.. so.... what should we do... hmm.... hmmm.. thinking.... Oh! I know.. MORE FUCKING STIMULUS!!! HORAYYYAAYYYYYYYY!!!! AND MORE TARP SPENDING!!! AND, LETS TRY TO LAUNCH THE BIGGEST PUBLIC HEALTH CARE INITIATIVE OF ALL TIME THAT WILL PUT A REDICULOUS ADDITIONAL BURDEN ON SMALL BUSINESS (and large business)!! Who cares if 3 or more of the largest 10 businesses in America said they would significantly reduce their "American Presence" due to it being an inhospitable place to do business... Fuck them.. It's not like we are in a recession/depression or anything... (meanwhile, 5 guys from N/U just got laid off)

Anyways, after the Carter-like world-apology-thon, the "taxes are too high so just don't pay em" cabinet members, lifting a ban that prevented our tax money to be sent overseas for abortions, touted governmental openness and then got the job & shit his pants and reversed his position on that one, the purchase of Government Motors, the largest spending frenzy in the history of american politics, and the non-stop work to increase "fairness" aka "stealing from the smart people" (wealth distribution), and of course the liberal standard set of entitlements, oh.. and don't even start on the go green shit... all this Tarp money going to new green business... I'm just wanting to shoot myself, I'm sure there are more.. but I'm raging so I can't think of em all...

The biggest thing that annoys me.. is that Americans are stupid... we don't pay attention.. we say things like "eh, I don't follow politics", and then, one day, you are going to wake up.. and you will lose your job / home / savings / etc and then you'll be like a little schoolboy that found his dick for the first time saying "how did I get here and what happened"..... The writing is on the wall...

Oh, and there is a poll....

/flame on

[enderless]

more people voted for american idol than for the '08. It's really hard to have faith in the American populace when most ppl don't give a fuck who runs the show.

[McLovin]

I think Obama is doing a fine time as president, its a known fact that government spending greatly increases the economy especially in a recession. Obama is trying to do something like the New Deal from FDR which got us mostly out of the Great Depression (Along with the war which was more government spending). The problem with the stimulus right now is it would have helped if we didn't have to revise it to a point where it can't do anything, the revisions were made by republicans that don't think the economy can be saved by government spending. To tell you the truth I think the economy will lift off with the raise along with the housing market and I don't think the government can do much to help at the moment.
Also I think Ender makes a great point with his comment. Americans are becoming more and more stupid with politics, worrying more about whats on TV then who their leader is and what he/she is doing. Its disgusting that people think that their vote doesn't count and that they can't control what happens in their country. This country was built upon people that want a fair government system where the people of the nation decide where the nation should go. The lack of interest in the government needs to be changed and I think Americans need to learn about who their voting for and for what reasons.
Yes I might be a liberal person about the whole situation but that is just how I was raised. I do study politics very closely and I am greatly interested in economics so I know what I'm talking about. I just hope people can accept everyones political and religious views and not make ludicrous accusations about our president. I greatly respect the Republican party (except for Palin) and I think their thoughts are as good as mine being a Democrat.

[easytarget]

Let's get out of debt by getting into more debt! Makes sense right? Boy, that is change I can believe in! >.>

~Maller

[Natalya]

Big Post

Oh, and there is a poll....

/flame on

So my question is what personally has changed in YOUR day to day life since Obama got elected?
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Let's get out of debt by getting into more debt! Makes sense right? Boy, that is change I can believe in! >.>

~Maller

We're not in bad economic times because we're in debt. And we're not in debt because the times are bad.

We're in bad economic times because during good economic times we had huge deficit spending. Unfortunately, the only way to get out of the specific type of rut we're in is deficit spending. So, although people might think it sucks, that's what we've gotta do to get out of this. If you believe otherwise, then tell me why Herbert Hoover didn't fix the Great Depression.

[rjk83]

So my question is what personally has changed in YOUR day to day life since Obama got elected?
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We're not in bad economic times because we're in debt. And we're not in debt because the times are bad.

We're in bad economic times because during good economic times we had huge deficit spending. Unfortunately, the only way to get out of the specific type of rut we're in is deficit spending. So, although people might think it sucks, that's what we've gotta do to get out of this. If you believe otherwise, then tell me why Herbert Hoover didn't fix the Great Depression.



Here is what has changed, and the point is, that it hasn't affected my day to day life yet (the policies already in place will affect my day to day life shortly, and the policy changes that they are TRYING to push will impact my day to day life tremendously).

What he wants to do and is doing (the is, both in word and action) is absorbing huge sections of the private sector into the government. Banking business, mortgage business, auto business, health care, etc. Has it impacted me? No, I still have my job, my healthcare, my cars, etc... Does it mean that since it doesn't impact me that it doesn't matter or that I'm somehow disqualified from thought? Hell No. This is my country, and myself and my wife and kid has a vested interest in the success of the country.

Politics has always been politics, democrats want big government and republicans want less spending... ok great, but lately there has been a paradigm shift in government. What is now being threatened (through things like cap and trade and health care) is my ability to make a living and provide for my family. This is what happens when the government starts getting too big, they encroach on the private sector (in this case, take over the private sector quite literally as if we were a Socialist state), they try to extend their reach everywhere and put down rules and policies and what they do is squeeze out the ability for small business to flourish and at the same time make it a less hospitable environment for big business.

This directly impacts my ability to get and hold a job when companies are going out of business and/or moving over see's. I know 3 guys just in the NU community that have been laid off in the past 6 months or so.

We were warned that if we didn't pass the "recovery act" (tarp) that unemployment could possibly reach 9%. Well, we passed it, and now unemployment is at 9.6% with no stopping in sight. We have lost about 3 million jobs and they say that they have possibly "saved or created" 150K jobs. Get real...


Also, to put in my 2c for the spending part... (without getting into how we got to this point as a country because thats another huge conversation) I think the question falls to what are we spending that money on, and how will it impact/correct the economy? If you look at where the Tarp funds were slotted to be spent, you will see why even though the government passed the greatest increase of spending of any government at any time in the history of the world, it's still not working.

They decided to spend enough money to be able to write a check to every tax-paying american for $10K, but large amounts of it aren't being spent on things that will actually stimulate the economy.

I think the point here is that we are spending the money to increase the government interest in the private sector instead of on things that stimulate the economy. Obama wants to again raise taxes (letting the Bush tax cuts expire) plus add an additional tax cut on the wealthy since they make up a small portion of the country. Also, Obama is promising massive increases in regulations (like cap and trade) that will cost the economy another trillion dollars a year. On top of that, he is trying to push through the Obama-care (a long term democratic pet project / state run healthcare). Obamacare is estimated to cost 1-2 Trillion over the next few years. (As an interesting side note, if I don't want to have health care, I would have to pay like 2-4% of my annual salary as a penalty for opting out of the national healthcare dealio).

So yeah, we have to spend, but we have to spend in a way in which brings jobs back (not increases government jobs, but fostering the environment for small business growth) The government can never match the private sector. We all know how "efficient" and "effective" the government is. Think about the last time you went to the DMV. The issue is that the real problems aren't being addressed and were spending money like it's candy (which puts a huge strain on the ability for the private sector to lend) and deceiving and diverting to bullshit like healthcare. We do need to spend, but no the way that Obama wants to spend.
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The problem with the stimulus right now is it would have helped if we didn't have to revise it to a point where it can't do anything, the revisions were made by republicans that don't think the economy can be saved by government spending.......
Yes I might be a liberal person about the whole situation but that is just how I was raised. I do study politics very closely and I am greatly interested in economics so I know what I'm talking about. I just hope people can accept everyones political and religious views and not make ludicrous accusations about our president. I greatly respect the Republican party (except for Palin) and I think their thoughts are as good as mine being a Democrat.

1) Why not Palin?

2) How much money was cut out of the stimulus bill and what did the republicans change in it?
As a point, out of 527 voting congressman, a total of 3 republicans voted yes on the stimulus bill. I don't think that they "gained republican support". Also, the things that the republicans wanted to add (across the board tax cut, 15% freeze on capital gains and dividends taxes, and other pro-business measures), were left out.

[Natalya]

Iunno dude. I mean, if it weren't for the stimulus plan, I wouldn't be able to ride the train to work and back because MARTA would have stopped running and such. Well, that or they would have hiked prices. So for me I've seen a positive outcome in my daily life for this.

And yea no one's denying that we're in the shit. I've also seen the threads on N/U about people losing jobs. Even my mom got laid off a couple months ago and hasn't been able to find a steady job since. (She's doing temp work.) I just haven't complained because I still have a job and so does my dad and brother so we're still okay.

As for govt. involvement in the private sector... I'm not sure where you're going with this. Did you want GM to fold?

[SmurfSniper]

ok..... I dont know what to say to this post except that obama isnt helping and

WE ARE FUCKED!

oh and nat the GM thing.... I work in the automotive industry and in all honesty a lot of people would lose their jobs from gm.... but at the same time GM staying is hurting much worse, the small companies that make gms parts are struggling trying to keep up with bills... as of right now a very large percentage of are not making enough money to even stay open and end up filing bankruptcy... and seeing that when the automotive industry is so competative right now as far as the supplier's end (example.... lets just say it cost a company 3 bux to make a bracket for a transmission cable GM is only paying that company a fraction of a cent to make that part when toyota, nissan, honda, hell even ford are paying around $3.50 per part) so for a small company to take GM business is basically cutting their throats.... not to mention I dont know if many know this and its really wierd in my opinion... but american vehicle parts are mostly made in japan or some other country because of what I said above no company can take on the work they offer.... and about 90% of imports like toyota, nissan, honda, kia, suzuki, mazda are made right here in the US and honestly should be considered more of an american vehicle than the ones we say are american....


and I have no clue if anything I just said just made any sense at all because I am so damn tired from working and not good at explaining shit when Im like this :P lol

public to private sector.... I think has a lot more to do with the government buying out banks and everything so they pretty much are having full control over who gets what and blah blah blah once again.... Im tired not sure what Im talking about :(


Side note:
FUCK NEW GUN LAWS!!! >:-[

[Natalya]

Democrats aren't gonna take y'alls guns. >_> But can we at least agree that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun on your person on a public bus or train or airplane?

[rjk83]

Re: GM...

GM isn't a victim of the poor economy (that's not to say that the economy hasn't impacted their already bad situation)... They haven't made money since 2005 and actually, they have lost almost $100 billion from 2006 to 1Q 2009. The only reason they were able to stay out of bankruptcy this long is because the banks have made it happen for them. The only real profitable portion of GM was the financing segment (GMAC, which the have been selling off).

GM's issues were amount of fixed costs, inability to innovate, and the inability to compete with other companies. Comparitavely, their vehicles were shit, they built them slower and at a higher cost than their competitors. 50 years ago, GM had a US market share that was well over 50%... They started ignoring competition and now their market share is well below 20%. The last piece was their extremely high fixed costs (union costs, health care, pensions, etc).

I guess, apart from just keeping some extra jobs around... Why do we want to put money into a business that isn't sustainable or viable. We are saving a company that is slow to innovate, can't adjust to a market that changes. makes cars that people apparently don't want and they have sold off GMAC which was the only profitable business in the past 5 years.

I don't think that the road to success is to inject money into businesses that are no longer a viable played based on their actions for the past 50 years. However, it will be interesting to see how the other companies like Ford will compete against a company that is majority owned by the US Government.....

[ORGANDONOR]

But can we at least agree that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun on your person on a public bus or train or airplane?

NO i will not agree with that at all why should i give up my right to have a gun on my person where ever i may go thats nuts and just another why to do what thay wont to get them out of are hands all together and take them away for ever. And you may say thats not going to happen but it will look at all the other counties thats not aloud to have guns and what thay turned out to be like. There leaders do alot of stuff that thay shouldnt be doing and thay have no way of stoping it because thay have no way to stand up and say we wont let it happen and cant stand up and we wont let it happen we do. When you take away are guns you take away are way to stick up for are slife and let shit happen do you want that thats why we dont have a queen by the way think of that. it happend once it will happen again.

[SmurfSniper]

nat i know they arent taking guns if but the limits they are putting on them is really rediculous... and as far as carrying a gun on a bus, train or any other sort of public transportation.... if im not mistaken that was in play before

[Natalya]

and as far as carrying a gun on a bus, train or any other sort of public transportation.... if im not mistaken that was in play before

Organ Donor didn't seem to notice that bit. >_> This leads me to believe that he doesn't in fact carry a gun on his person everywhere he goes, so I'm not sure why he's complaining about this.

[Nemesis Breaker]

oh jesus its a politics thread. *goes hide in cave*

[easytarget]

Hey, go spend all your money and get as many loans as you can and live your life that way. Then tell me debt is not a problem. But no, the government didnt just bail out "to big to fail" banks right? That doesnt increase our debt? Wait, the car industry wants a bail out? Oh, lets give them money!! Hey, you guys probably haven't heard but now the dairy industry wants a bail out too! I don't even care which president got us into it (be it Bush, Carter, dems and repubs are the same to me). If the debt issue isnt solved, changing tax codes, building infrastructure or anything will not work. Lets find the bottom and then work our way up, not dig a bigger hole and have me, you and numerous of our generations pay for it later.

~Maller

[Natalya]

Hey, go spend all your money and get as many loans as you can and live your life that way. Then tell me debt is not a problem.

Because of the Federal Reserve, our economy is actually entirely dependent upon us constantly doing this. Ever get a car loan or take out a mortgage or use a credit card? If no one did this we would be just as screwed as we are now.

[ORGANDONOR]

yes i do have a gun and yes i do carry a gun on my person and i allways will carry one no me and i got a shot gun in the back of my truck at all times to so i dont know what your thinking im a hick. And when have you ever been aloud to have a gun on a plain never.

[rjk83]

As an update:
Tomorrow, during a testimony about the Fed's "transparency", they are supposed to announce that the total cost for bailouts and TARP will be up to or around $23 Trillion... I think we are going past "spending our way out of the recession" and crossing over into putting America and American Debt into a unrepairable state.

For reference, the total US National Debt to date (which previously, everyone seemed to think was amazingly high and now seems to be a drop in the bucket) is about $11.6 Trillion. The total American GDP is a bit over $13 Trillion... This amount of money is like spending $32 Million every day since the year 0.

"In fact, $23 trillion is more than the total cost of all the wars the United States has ever fought, put together. World War II, for example, cost $4.1 trillion in 2008 dollars, according to the Congressional Research Service.
Even the Moon landings and the New Deal didn’t come close to $23 trillion: the Moon shot in 1969 cost an estimated $237 billion in current dollars, and the entire Depression-era Roosevelt relief program came in at $500 billion, according to Jim Bianco of Bianco Research"

I'm not just a crazy person. This is happening :)


Also for reference, TARP is the Troubled Assets Relief Program.(aka, the big bailout plan that was passed not too long ago)... Also in the past 7 months, the Special Inspector General for TARP (SIGTARP) has launched over 35 criminal and civil investigations re: the misuse of taxpayer money.

[Natalya]

Then I have 2 questions:

First off where is this 23 trillion number coming from? TARP wasl ike 700-something billion, how could it possibly cost that much?

Secondly, what would you have us do -- absolutely nothing & spend no money at all to fixthis problem?

[rjk83]

First off where is this 23 trillion number coming from? TARP wasl ike 700-something billion, how could it possibly cost that much?

The estimates that I know of are over $6 trillion for the freddie / fannie bailouts, the almost $1 trillion that was sent out from congress, over $7 trillion made available by the fed for bailouts of which only $2 trillion has been spent to date, and the rest, I don't know. This is the point, I don't know and you don't know and the "openness" & "transparency" that has been touted isn't a reality. However, the guy that is in charge of auditing this, the Special Inspector General for the TARP money, is testifying before congress today about the lack of transparency and the very real possibility that this will reach $23 Trillion.


Secondly, what would you have us do -- absolutely nothing & spend no money at all to fixthis problem?

I am clearly a conservative. Everything about me and my political thoughts are conservative. (note: conservative and not republican) I know that you can spend money in a positive way that will stimulate growth of business, I have seen republicans and democrats both do this. I will probably disagree with any liberal on almost all fundamental issues, but I do agree, as do most conservatives, that money needs to be spent to get us out of a recession, but you can't possibly believe that this is needed? Two times the total amount of debt that our country has ever accumulated. Spending the amount of money that doubles or triples our nations total debt and is over 2 times the total annual GDP for the entire country is crippling. I wouldn't expect to hear too much on the news about it of course so I hope that is not where people get their information. (yadda yadda, huge media bias to either the left side (everywhere besides fox news) or leaning to the right (fox news).

I just can't believe that even the most left person on the planet (outside of congress) could look at a number like that compared to our total national debt and GDP and say that it is necessary and/or OK for my government to spend that much money.

I may not have the direct answer or the fix for it, and it is not my job to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't look at something and cry foul, and know that this is an incredibly bad deal. I still posses the common sense needed to look at this and say that something is wrong, there has been no transparency, 35 investigations into misuse of money, up to 20x the amount that was reported on originally. It's still my tax money and going to be my retirement and livelihood soon.

[Leite]

Well, its about time for my 2 sense...

First off, in my school, if this was a term paper, and you guys had this many un-cited facts, they laugh at you.

Now with that little bit aside, I have a pretty bi-partisan view point. I believe in protection of the 2nd amendment, government regulation (within reason) and less loosely administered welfare (not to get in to other big issues). The real reason America's economy has fallen by the wayside is not government. Its all about trade and energy.

First of all, if you look at trade, in April of 09' we imported 28.8 billion dollars more worth of goods in to this country than out of it (BEA Overview of the U.S. Economy (http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/glance.htm)). That means we are taking our wealth and sending it to China and the middle east. The worst part is, WE DON'T HAVE TO! We have oil in Alaska we can't drill because of environmentalist! We have factories, but all of our corporations would rather outsource then work here because its so expensive. Our automakers don't understand how to make inexpensive, quality, attractive cars (or don't want to) and our farmlands are being destroyed for suburban development! We import so much food! WHY!

So back to the point. Where Obama has it right, and wrong. Energy, We need to get the fuck off foreign oil, on to ours and eventually off it completely! Health care, he has good intentions, but I don't see it ending up well. I like the destruction of earmarks for insurance companies, but to make the plan work, its going to raise the deficit. Iraq and Afghanistan, Its about time we finish up our job in Iraq and get on to eradicating the Al-Qaeda (who we backed in the cold war, if you know your history).

That's all I got for now.

[rjk83]

First off, in my school, if this was a term paper, and you guys had this many un-cited facts, they laugh at you.


Fortunately, we aren't in school and this isn't a term paper :). What I mean by that is simply, speaking for myself and my posts, most of the numbers are facts and the rest is opinion. More directly, I hope people that disagree and/or don't believe the numbers and/or thing that I have personally said will go do their due diligence to figure it out. I personally believe that one of the biggest problems is that the majority of people get their information from 30 second news clips or paid advertisements on TV. (you can tell these people because they are strong in their argument until you ask them "why", and then they get defensive)


The real reason America's economy has fallen by the wayside is not government. Its all about trade and energy.


So... to touch on this, this thread isn't really about why the economy has tanked, but moreover about what we, as Americans and our elected representatives, are doing as a reaction to this. Even more, it IS a critique on the current administration and their policies as well as the current body of congress in relation to the direct implication on the future of the economy and the country as a whole. Why the economy crashed is important, but understand as a precursor to many of the things that have been said here, I don't think that finger pointing about the root cause of the economic crash has been one. I don't want to dismiss your point and I agree with some of it, but I don't think that it is the premise of this post.

[ORGANDONOR]

now im not going to lie all of this is true and would get us out the hole a little bet but not out far a nuff to really make that much of a diffrence in the matters at hand.

First of all, if you look at trade, in April of 09' we imported 28.8 billion dollars more worth of goods in to this country than out of it (BEA Overview of the U.S. Economy (http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/glance.htm)). That means we are taking our wealth and sending it to China and the middle east. The worst part is, WE DON'T HAVE TO! We have oil in Alaska we can't drill because of environmentalist! We have factories, but all of our corporations would rather outsource then work here because its so expensive. Our automakers don't understand how to make inexpensive, quality, attractive cars (or don't want to) and our farmlands are being destroyed for suburban development! We import so much food! WHY!