Barack Obama

[Natalya]

Hey, go spend all your money and get as many loans as you can and live your life that way. Then tell me debt is not a problem.

Because of the Federal Reserve, our economy is actually entirely dependent upon us constantly doing this. Ever get a car loan or take out a mortgage or use a credit card? If no one did this we would be just as screwed as we are now.

[ORGANDONOR]

yes i do have a gun and yes i do carry a gun on my person and i allways will carry one no me and i got a shot gun in the back of my truck at all times to so i dont know what your thinking im a hick. And when have you ever been aloud to have a gun on a plain never.

[rjk83]

As an update:
Tomorrow, during a testimony about the Fed's "transparency", they are supposed to announce that the total cost for bailouts and TARP will be up to or around $23 Trillion... I think we are going past "spending our way out of the recession" and crossing over into putting America and American Debt into a unrepairable state.

For reference, the total US National Debt to date (which previously, everyone seemed to think was amazingly high and now seems to be a drop in the bucket) is about $11.6 Trillion. The total American GDP is a bit over $13 Trillion... This amount of money is like spending $32 Million every day since the year 0.

"In fact, $23 trillion is more than the total cost of all the wars the United States has ever fought, put together. World War II, for example, cost $4.1 trillion in 2008 dollars, according to the Congressional Research Service.
Even the Moon landings and the New Deal didn’t come close to $23 trillion: the Moon shot in 1969 cost an estimated $237 billion in current dollars, and the entire Depression-era Roosevelt relief program came in at $500 billion, according to Jim Bianco of Bianco Research"

I'm not just a crazy person. This is happening


Also for reference, TARP is the Troubled Assets Relief Program.(aka, the big bailout plan that was passed not too long ago)... Also in the past 7 months, the Special Inspector General for TARP (SIGTARP) has launched over 35 criminal and civil investigations re: the misuse of taxpayer money.

[Natalya]

Then I have 2 questions:

First off where is this 23 trillion number coming from? TARP wasl ike 700-something billion, how could it possibly cost that much?

Secondly, what would you have us do -- absolutely nothing & spend no money at all to fixthis problem?

[rjk83]

First off where is this 23 trillion number coming from? TARP wasl ike 700-something billion, how could it possibly cost that much?

The estimates that I know of are over $6 trillion for the freddie / fannie bailouts, the almost $1 trillion that was sent out from congress, over $7 trillion made available by the fed for bailouts of which only $2 trillion has been spent to date, and the rest, I don't know. This is the point, I don't know and you don't know and the "openness" & "transparency" that has been touted isn't a reality. However, the guy that is in charge of auditing this, the Special Inspector General for the TARP money, is testifying before congress today about the lack of transparency and the very real possibility that this will reach $23 Trillion.

Secondly, what would you have us do -- absolutely nothing & spend no money at all to fixthis problem?

I am clearly a conservative. Everything about me and my political thoughts are conservative. (note: conservative and not republican) I know that you can spend money in a positive way that will stimulate growth of business, I have seen republicans and democrats both do this. I will probably disagree with any liberal on almost all fundamental issues, but I do agree, as do most conservatives, that money needs to be spent to get us out of a recession, but you can't possibly believe that this is needed? Two times the total amount of debt that our country has ever accumulated. Spending the amount of money that doubles or triples our nations total debt and is over 2 times the total annual GDP for the entire country is crippling. I wouldn't expect to hear too much on the news about it of course so I hope that is not where people get their information. (yadda yadda, huge media bias to either the left side (everywhere besides fox news) or leaning to the right (fox news).

I just can't believe that even the most left person on the planet (outside of congress) could look at a number like that compared to our total national debt and GDP and say that it is necessary and/or OK for my government to spend that much money.

I may not have the direct answer or the fix for it, and it is not my job to do so, but that doesn't mean that I can't look at something and cry foul, and know that this is an incredibly bad deal. I still posses the common sense needed to look at this and say that something is wrong, there has been no transparency, 35 investigations into misuse of money, up to 20x the amount that was reported on originally. It's still my tax money and going to be my retirement and livelihood soon.

[Leite]

Well, its about time for my 2 sense...

First off, in my school, if this was a term paper, and you guys had this many un-cited facts, they laugh at you.

Now with that little bit aside, I have a pretty bi-partisan view point. I believe in protection of the 2nd amendment, government regulation (within reason) and less loosely administered welfare (not to get in to other big issues). The real reason America's economy has fallen by the wayside is not government. Its all about trade and energy.

First of all, if you look at trade, in April of 09' we imported 28.8 billion dollars more worth of goods in to this country than out of it (BEA Overview of the U.S. Economy). That means we are taking our wealth and sending it to China and the middle east. The worst part is, WE DON'T HAVE TO! We have oil in Alaska we can't drill because of environmentalist! We have factories, but all of our corporations would rather outsource then work here because its so expensive. Our automakers don't understand how to make inexpensive, quality, attractive cars (or don't want to) and our farmlands are being destroyed for suburban development! We import so much food! WHY!

So back to the point. Where Obama has it right, and wrong. Energy, We need to get the fuck off foreign oil, on to ours and eventually off it completely! Health care, he has good intentions, but I don't see it ending up well. I like the destruction of earmarks for insurance companies, but to make the plan work, its going to raise the deficit. Iraq and Afghanistan, Its about time we finish up our job in Iraq and get on to eradicating the Al-Qaeda (who we backed in the cold war, if you know your history).

That's all I got for now.

[rjk83]

First off, in my school, if this was a term paper, and you guys had this many un-cited facts, they laugh at you.

Fortunately, we aren't in school and this isn't a term paper . What I mean by that is simply, speaking for myself and my posts, most of the numbers are facts and the rest is opinion. More directly, I hope people that disagree and/or don't believe the numbers and/or thing that I have personally said will go do their due diligence to figure it out. I personally believe that one of the biggest problems is that the majority of people get their information from 30 second news clips or paid advertisements on TV. (you can tell these people because they are strong in their argument until you ask them "why", and then they get defensive)

The real reason America's economy has fallen by the wayside is not government. Its all about trade and energy.

So... to touch on this, this thread isn't really about why the economy has tanked, but moreover about what we, as Americans and our elected representatives, are doing as a reaction to this. Even more, it IS a critique on the current administration and their policies as well as the current body of congress in relation to the direct implication on the future of the economy and the country as a whole. Why the economy crashed is important, but understand as a precursor to many of the things that have been said here, I don't think that finger pointing about the root cause of the economic crash has been one. I don't want to dismiss your point and I agree with some of it, but I don't think that it is the premise of this post.

[ORGANDONOR]

now im not going to lie all of this is true and would get us out the hole a little bet but not out far a nuff to really make that much of a diffrence in the matters at hand.

First of all, if you look at trade, in April of 09' we imported 28.8 billion dollars more worth of goods in to this country than out of it (BEA Overview of the U.S. Economy). That means we are taking our wealth and sending it to China and the middle east. The worst part is, WE DON'T HAVE TO! We have oil in Alaska we can't drill because of environmentalist! We have factories, but all of our corporations would rather outsource then work here because its so expensive. Our automakers don't understand how to make inexpensive, quality, attractive cars (or don't want to) and our farmlands are being destroyed for suburban development! We import so much food! WHY!