Palin Interview (teehee)

[Natalya]

Nat, socialized medicine has never worked, look at Canada. They come here for service because noone can get healthcare there. Government pays for it all but everyone goes to the doctor for the littlest thing and thus, there are terribly huge lines to get any attention so people are just fed up. They rather just go to the US and pay for it.

When was the last time you went to a hospital in Canada? Have you ever been to one? I had to go to the hospital one time when I was up there because I was violently ill. Since I'm a Canadian citizen as well as an American one, I get the same treatment there that Pasties or any other Canadian would get, and well let me tell you, it sucks to go to the hospital no matter where you live but in Canada they don't do all that insurance checking bullshit and don't try to see if you're even qualified to be treated. They just wanted proof that I was a Canadian citizen. Whereas in the U.S. when I went to the emergency room after breaking my ankle, I had to sit around in the lobby for an hour before they would even look at me because they had to process my health insurance info.
You know you say that socialized medicine never works, but when you look at the charts... The U.S.A is ranked #45 in terms of life expectancy of all countries. We're behind countries like Jordan, war-torn Bosnia, and Singapore. Canadians live an average of almost 2 years longer than us, ranking 10th world-wide. Don't tell me that their health care system doesn't work when it's quantitatively better than ours.

And how is the fair tax not fair? There is no arguement there. People see the high tax rate and go OMG LOOK HOW MUCH U RAISE IT BY. But really, it saves you so much money because it does not tax anything you save. But, show me your numbers and ill show you mine.

~Easy

This will take some time to explain, so bear with me. Fair tax is such that the richer you are, the better it is for you, while it hurts middle and lower-class people, who make up the majority of the population.

First example is with the current system:
Let's say you're lower-middle class and you make $30,000/yr and sales tax where you live is 5% (at least that's what it is where I live), and for the sake of round numbers, let's say milk costs $4.00/gallon. (IRL it will fluctuate between about $3.60 and $4.20, sometimes spiking.) Therefore, milk now costs $4.20/gallon. If you make $30,000 you owe $4099 in income tax, so you took home $25,901. Now you buy 1 gallon of milk per week, 52 weeks/year. This works out to be $218.40, which is 0.843% of your income.

Now we're going to assume we're using the Fair Tax... According to their website, the Fair Tax should be set at 23%. This means milk is now like $4.92/gallon. You took home $30,000 this go around however, but you're still buying 1 gallon of milk/week x 52 months/year so you now spent $255.84 on milk. This is now .853% of your income, an increase from the previous system.

Now if you change the numbers here, somewhere around $35K the percentages even out, and then the higher you make after that, the less of a portion of your annual income this is, but the lower you go, the worse off you are and pretty soon milk becomes 1% of your income, at which point you probably will stop buying it. Now you're going to say that most families make over $35,000/yr (the point where both systems even out) anyway, so this shouldn't be a big deal. Well, yes most households do earn over $35,000/year, but 40% of families don't. Two fifths of American families would get shafted by this, and this is measured in households... If you went individually, it turns out that 56% of Americans as individuals don't make $35K/yr, so either way you are hurting a huge segment of the population.

And that's just milk. Forget about other staples like bread or gas or whatever. Whichever you choose it doesn't look pretty.

[easytarget]

Well to keep it simple, yes you are taxed a shit ton when you buy things, but the money you save and put away from it will not be taxed at all thus granting a large yield of what you save. Start buying the used items which will not be taxed at all (second hand car for example), and well shit if you have the money that you have earned, buy a new item. It promotes people to save their money and stop excessive spending and using money they do not have. If people work hard and make their money however they make it, then they should keep it, not be overtaxed because you think its immoral to make money. That is basically what I see, it is money wealth envy. Most people are middle class or lower class, well let them work to get the money to advance. The income tax code does not allow this to happen and I think it takes away from the lower/middle even more. That is why I like a flat tax of some sort. I do not like when the government is in my business and just takes my money that I worked for from my income. Capitalism for the win.

~Easy

[Natalya]

Well to keep it simple, yes you are taxed a shit ton when you buy things, but the money you save and put away from it will not be taxed at all thus granting a large yield of what you save.

I'm fairly certain that I just showed you that unless you make over a certain amount, you don't save from this system, and end up paying more. Maybe you missed that but that's the fundamental flaw with the "fair" tax.

Start buying the used items which will not be taxed at all (second hand car for example),

Second-hand food too?

and well shit if you have the money that you have earned, buy a new item. It promotes people to save their money and stop excessive spending and using money they do not have.

Actually because of fractional-reserve banking our entire economy is predicated upon people spending money they do not have, usually through taking out loans and lines of credit. If no one was in debt the economy would collapse almost instantly, thx to the Federal Reserve. Individually it's good to not be in debt but socially, our current economic structure demands that we as a country stay in debt. And debt = slavery.

If people work hard and make their money however they make it, then they should keep it, not be overtaxed because you think its immoral to make money. That is basically what I see, it is money wealth envy.

Actually I'm part of the upper class myself. I just care for those who don't have as much as me more than I care about those who do.

Most people are middle class or lower class, well let them work to get the money to advance. The income tax code does not allow this to happen and I think it takes away from the lower/middle even more.

Again, in my example above I demonstrated that the Fair Tax takes away more from them.

That is why I like a flat tax of some sort. I do not like when the government is in my business and just takes my money that I worked for from my income. Capitalism for the win.

~Easy

[easytarget]

No you demonstrated again what I was saying. All people see is the high flat tax and go "omg" and stop there. Go ahead and compare numbers from the whole pictures of getting money from your flat tax and income tax. Compare from year to year how much you actually save from a flat tax paying your higher consumable (which we do need a way to pay for government processes), than from the income tax which actually takes away more from you to help government overspending. If you can do that, then you will have an arguement. If you are still stuck on, "look how much tax is on our foods", there is really no arguing anymore because of your failure to account for the big picture. And because of the income tax, you are right...for our economy to say afloat we need to stay in debt. That is why we need to cut government spending, enforce a balanced budget and get rid of the income tax code so we can increase the value of the dollar again!

~Easy

[pathboy]

This may be the single best explanation of how the tax system works in
the US, and the problems with those that demagogue it.

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day; ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every
day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner
threw them a curve. He said, "Since you are all such good customers, I'm
going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten
now cost just $80."

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men -- the paying customers?
How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his
"fair share"? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if
they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the
sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So the bar
owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by
roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each
should pay!

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!"

"Yeah, that's right,' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar,
too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!"

"That's true!!"shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when
I got only $2 ? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat
down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill,
they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money
between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our
tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most
benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being
wealthy, and they just may not show up any more. In fact, they might
start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

Author unknown
______________

I don't feel guilty for being successful, partly because I fought and earned every single penny I have. Seeing the system from the bottom, I understand the difficulties facing those who start with zero like I did. I also see how the current system makes it so hard for small bussiness to grow -- Obama's plan would only make things worse. It's much easier to learn fancy economic theory and rhetoric, than to start a bussiness, employ people, and be successful. The American people are in for a rude wake-up call. It's a global economy now, and they are fat, soft, stupid, and lazy compared to our competion.

Pathboy

PS: One thing that I see on a daily basis that kills me, is people who say they can't pay their bills but still have cell phones and drive brand new cars. Guess they spent all their money on milk. Beer is cheeper. Water is free.

[Kumar]

actually with the fair tax if you make that low per year you get a rebate per month for every person in your household to cover the taxes for food and clothes you might have. The fair tax gets rid of the irs and makes taxes simple. Every corporation would be taxed for everything they buy, the rich buy more so they still pay the majority of the taxes, illegal immigrants have to pay taxes, tourists from other countries pay our taxes, and once you got used to getting your entire paycheck you would start buying more also. It would boost economy and make us more money.
And nuclear waste isn't as big of a deal as they make it out to be. We have a spent fuel pool that keeps all of our waste in it. It has all of the nuclear waste from the beginning of our reactor in the 60s. There is still a ton of room. We won't have to expand the pool for at least another 40 years. I could go on for days of the benefits of nuclear energy.

[Natalya]

No you demonstrated again what I was saying. All people see is the high flat tax and go "omg" and stop there. Go ahead and compare numbers from the whole pictures of getting money from your flat tax and income tax. Compare from year to year how much you actually save from a flat tax paying your higher consumable (which we do need a way to pay for government processes),

You fail to understand what I showed you then... I didn't say that the stuff we bought was going to be more expensive... Like you said, that would be pointless. Rather, I showed that the stuff we buy would constitute a higher percentage of our income if you make less than $35K/year, so relatively speaking you save less unless you make over $35K/year. You save in the number of dollars you have because you don't pay the IRS, but now you spend a higher percentage of your total income, even though your total income has gone up, on commodities so you still lose. You're not understanding what I'm saying.

than from the income tax which actually takes away more from you to help government overspending. If you can do that, then you will have an arguement. If you are still stuck on, "look how much tax is on our foods", there is really no arguing anymore because of your failure to account for the big picture. And because of the income tax, you are right...for our economy to say afloat we need to stay in debt.

Err, this perpetual debt I'm talking about has absolutely nothing to do with the Fair Tax or the IRS... This has to do with fractional reserve banking, AKA the Federal Reserve system. IRS or Fair Tax or whatever, doesn't matter. Fractional reserve banking deals with inflation and how money is created, not how the government gets money from you.

That is why we need to cut government spending, enforce a balanced budget and get rid of the income tax code so we can increase the value of the dollar again!

~Easy

[easytarget]

You do not spend more because the tax code is simplified. Corporations do not have to go through the perplexing tax code and basically a whole division of it has been cut out thus making prices relative again. Then, in reality, you are not paying as much as you stated above. Also, with the fair tax, there is a prebate which entails everyone gettings a check in the beginning of the money of what "poverty level" essentials cost you (food, water, whatever to survive) which cuts out your argument on paying for food at outrageous amounts. Therefore, your numbers (like I said before), do not hold up. Let me help you out and explain what the real arguement against the fair tax is. Basically, people are saying politicians will try and exempt certain areas of the fair tax (medicine for example), thus bringing up the fair tax rate to 30 or 40 and thus the prices on stuff do not pan out to help the individual. Unfortunately, that arguement does not hold up because that is CHANGING the fair tax. Fair tax calls for taxing everything and thus keeping the tax rate "low". The fair tax also brings out of country business back to the US and brings up the economy. More businesses will come here and create more jobs for the unemployed as well because there is no complex tax code to go through anymore. The IRS does nothing but make sure sales tax is being collected and will shrink to almost nothing. Individuals will not have to deal with income tax anymore and I do not know about you, but that sounds just dandy to me.

~Easy

[easytarget]

I like that Barstool thingy Pathboy. I am not a good arguer to be honest and by no means am I trying to down Nat (the fact that she knows anything or is defending her view grants my respect). I just hope anyone who is reading gets that you should know what you are voting for, look at the angles before you set your sights on what your vote should be. I think there are too many people voting just to vote because of the bias media and their whole "vote or die" catch phrase, whatever it is. Just take note of that. -)

~Easy

[Doll_GiRL2]

Obama Pwns compared to the old guy who can't remember how many houses he has... lol

Palin is like another Jerry Springer to me.

Sorry Tina Feyes (however u spell it) Impression of Sarah Palin on Saturday Night Live is just fuckin true. haha

[soul]

palin's opinions on global warming abortion the war and gay rights are appalling

[Natalya]

She wouldn't even tell he daughter about condamns. D: You know if Barack had an under-aged daughter with an illegitimate child on the way, he wouldn't have even gotten into the senate. Fucking double-standards.

[soul]

She wouldn't even tell her daughter about condemns.

wow I didn't know that... Thats fucked up.

[pathboy]

If Obama wasn't black, he wouldn't even be on the ballet. Fucking doublestandards.

And let's be honest, if Obama's daughter DID get pregnant, I'm sure he'd take her by the hand to the nearest abortion clinic to kill the little fetus and solve the problem. He wouldn't want his daughter to be "punished" by having a baby.

[Natalya]

Btw, Obama's white too.