keep or remove propmenu

[JuuJuu]

i am tired of propmenu, barrel rolls, stacking towers, people bitching about stupid shit, just remove propmenu and make the setting so you can ninja stuff again, make it how it used to be when Tara was around, all the settings have been changed so much, just revert them back to when it was fun, and harder to do things!

i dont mind the skins, i just hate propmenu

[Natalya]

I thought u were one of the filer team members. D:

[JuuJuu]

i do use propmenu, but i hate it excessively, everyone uses it, you cant have a normal, stand on a box and make a attempt to hold off, anymore, its just plain lame, instead of using teamwork everyone just uses propmenu instead of helping each other boost, no spots are fun anymore, and people can just spawn shit in a vent and be like, ooo im not vent camping cause im not shooting, or stack to a place that never should be able to get to... its ruined the fun of ZM!! !weapons menu is fine cause if someone spawns late they dont get a gun that helps

[bmwong620]

i say get rid of propmenu so noobs wont make you get stuck and piss u off. also u wont get pissed if someone breaks ur props

[Natalya]

Spawning shit in vents is illegal and counts as venting.

[JuuJuu]

that doesnt stop people from doing it, and theres almost no admins on at night or early in the morning, i also hate dickheads who break a tower when u try to stack up from behind someone cause its their friend happens alot

[RPGBandit]

Re: keep or remove propmenu

i dont mind the skins, i just hate propmenu

Juu Juu and I discussed this a lot last night on Steam, and Juu Juu, or anyone supporting to get rid of it, I mean no disrespect by my comments, and please don't take any of them the wrong way. I'm trying to look at this from a logical point of view, and I will address both sides' needs.

Anyway, to begin, I myself am somewhat biased to this specific quarry, because I never played during the times when propmenu didn't exist, and therefore, I don't know what it was like. I will say however, than in my opinion, I do not support getting rid of it.

Right now, Juu Juu's arguments are somewhat trifling, and in order to really convince me, he's going to need to provide stronger evidence. The things Juu Juu has posted are just minor problems with propmenu, and they deal with annoyances, which don't count much. Sure, you can whine and complain all you wish about how the idiot knocked down your tower, but in the end, it's still just a game, and nobody actually cares. I myself do get frustrated when that happens, but when an admin is on, they kick them, and I go on my merry way, and if an admin is not on, I create a new personal vendetta.

My point is, Juu Juu, that it just looks like whining to me. I do think, however, that some changes could be made to propmenu. For example, there's a few useless props in it, but the only one I can seem to think of at the moment is the bed frame. I have honestly never used it, and I probably never will.

I think propmenu just needs a few upgrades. I think that if you're crouching, you shouldn't be able to spawn props, because that just makes the spot invincible. Also, I think that if should check if your head is touching a ceiling, and if it is, you can't spawn anything anyway. The first response from some people for this suggestion is going to be something like: "Well, 1, you can't check stuff like that, and 2, that's retarded." Yea, you can check for things like that, and just because nobody's used it up to this point doesn't mean it's not there. Secondly, it's not retarded, it's fair.

I however do agree with most of Juu Juu's points, but I still wont take his side until he provides extremely strong points, and really convinces me to. I do get annoyed often in-game, but it's not something I'm proud of. When it comes to an FPS, patience is far and few between.

I just think, instead of jumping to these huge conclusions of "We just need to get rid of it," are a little childish, and almost selfish. I really dont mind if we change it though, because it wont ever bother me what we do, I'll always play in this server for the people.

I'm always up for a little healthy change, and if the admins feel they want to take the propmenu off for a few days, then have at it guys. I have no power there, and I don't know if I would want to anyway. if, after a few days of trial and error, people like it, then go for it. If not, I say leave it up to the vote, because that seems to be the most fair way of looking at it.


Geesh, that was a bit long, sorry. If you're WAY too lazy to read all of it, here's the TL;DR.

TL;DR (Too long; didn't read) ->

I don't think we should just jump to conclusions, and get rid of propmenu entirely. Read the whole post for details.



Those are my views, and I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Good luck to the lot of you, and Juu Juu, if you find some better points, I'd be happy to side with you. Again, none of this is personal at all, it's how I'm looking at it now.

~[RPGBandit]~

[kamikaze_bad_ass]

ok my personal oppition

fist i have to side with nat and bandit on this one cause i like the propmenu and i'm not bias cause i played long before prop menu came about an i think it adds a new dimension to the game and yes it is annoying when someone breaks your cade or knocks your tower down but thats part of the game and gives admins something ta do and yes u can get it spots that are harder to reach but it adds to the game and makes maps that where dull fun now

but like bandit said it could use a little over haul like
#1. taking off the bedframe and maybe the fridge cause both are seldom used
#2. fix the vending machine cause it normaly spawns on top of you and is VERY hard ta move or maybe replace with another one thats easier to use
#3.like bandit metioned fix where props don't spawn cause they won't fit or whatever the reason and fix where i charges you when they don't spawn maybe instead like a error msg of some kind
#4.maybe add couch or boxes or wire spool to replace the 2 above mentioned amoug other items

ONLY FLAWS I SEE WITH IT but i say keep prop menu just do some minor tweaking

[JuuJuu]

My point is, Juu Juu, that it just looks like whining to me.

i am a whiner!!! another thing to fix is in the mornings it bans anyone who trys to join, not sure if its propmenu just something i noticed this mornin, My biggest pep peave is that if you go into a room with stuff, if you just mass 8 filing cabinets, you can potentially lock em, impossible to move and impossible to unlock till next round

lets say ur trying to get a guy on a building, you try stacking up on the opposite side, only to have his friend zombie run into and break it, and bandit, i have never seen a admin remove someone for doing that, even after multiple occasions

changing propmenu to get rid of some items would be nice, i agree that bed frame is terrible and i think that the vending machine should be the moonlight 1 that is ezily movable, sofa and spool would be a cool addition

Vent campers just mass stuff on both sides of them (filing cabinets) and because it doesnt fit in the area it just gets locked in place, unable to be moved, and its rediculous cause the moment a admin comes on they stop doing it so its hard to catch em in the act

we also need some old maps, but those old maps would have like 1 spot that would be good b/c of the propmenu tower stacks would destroy them


i also dislike how people can stack onto a tower that requires like 8 filing cabinets, and then when they see someone stacking, they shoot the whole thing down, theres only 1 way up, stacking, so either make a rule where they cant shoot filing stacks down or just edit the maps you download and put invis walls everywhere

[X-Storm]

I have to agree with everyone on this...propmenu is good sometimes, but it does make the game a lot easier, well for me it does idk how many i've gotten with propmenu.
But it is still a good thing to have if people have blocked a way to a high tower or something, and the only way to get up there is with propmenu then it is good.

To be honest i think we should keep them, but perhaps lower the credits a little?

[Natalya]

Okay first some technical notes...

A: Bed Frame
I'm all ears if y'all would like to suggest possible replacements for this prop. It's seldom used and would probably be better if it was replaced with another prop, so give me ideas. Juu mentioned the wire spool, but this prop is not very heavy. It rolls around easily and is not suitable for barricading.

B: Vending Machine
The vending machine spawns on top of you unless you aim sufficiently far away from where you're trying to spawn it. The vend is expensive and sometimes bugs like that, but the thing is that if you do it right it's probably the best prop for making a barricade in the whole game and zombies can't deal with it except by barrel rolling. So, what I say here is, learn to place it better because yes, it is risky, so you gotta see if the benefits outweigh the risk. It would be kinda cheap if it was sure to get placed properly. Also, it can't be replaced with the smaller cs_office vending machine. (1337UP or MoOnLiGht one)

C: Props in Vents
Call admins to deal with this problem. We'll be happy to kill anyone who spawns dryers in vents. Umm, I don't know about a check to see if the player is crouched or not... I guess I could look at it, maybe there is a way. I like the idea I just don't know if it's possible.

@ Juu and Zombies Breaking Prop Towers:
I personally don't ban zombies for busting my towers because with Jedi powers I am not easily thwarted in this manner and I end up just using them to do what I was gonna do in the first place with the prop stack... Banning people is sometimes bothersome so why bother if I can get past what they've done? If someone breaks ur stack tho and I'm around I'll help u out tho and maybe ban them or something, but you gotta complain and let me know or else I'm not gonna see it happen.

Another thing... You seem a little incoherent here. You want the prop menu removed partially because zombies break your prop towers that you wouldn't even have in the first place if there was no prop menu...? This seems a little illogical to me.

"i also dislike how people can stack onto a tower that requires like 8 filing cabinets, and then when they see someone stacking, they shoot the whole thing down, theres only 1 way up, stacking, so either make a rule where they cant shoot filing stacks down or just edit the maps you download and put invis walls everywhere"

Any map edited by MoOnLiGht has invisible walls and shit to prevent this. All of my maps do too except Natalya's Ship. But srsly, that is most of the maps on the server right there... (Moon has edited a lot like the zm_roy_ maps as well.)



Anyway, so my whole take on it is this:

The ZM we have now is not the ZM that Tara used to run. You have to remember that it died for about two months, and so that's why all the changes have been made, most of them coming during the summer this year. Prop menu was the first thing we changed on the server and so I don't really see it going away at this point, especially since in this vote a majority said to keep it. But I can make changes to it. Once y'all decide on a replacement for the bed frame, I'll get that put in there and I'll look for a way to make it not work while you are crouching as well. Umm I guess other options include making shit either more or less expensive, but no1 has said anything about that yet.

[JuuJuu]

Juu mentioned the wire spool, but this prop is not very heavy. It rolls around easily and is not suitable for barricading.

no kamikazi mentioned it

You want the prop menu removed partially because zombies break your prop towers that you wouldn't even have in the first place if there was no prop menu...?

if there was no propmenu i wouldnt be complaining in the first place

The ZM we have now is not the ZM that Tara used to run. You have to remember that it died for about two months, and so that's why all the changes have been made, most of them coming during the summer this year. Prop menu was the first thing we changed on the server and so I don't really see it going away at this point, especially since in this vote a majority said to keep it.

ok keep it, i will probably still play on n/u just not as much, i will prolly lean towards sub-z's new zm cause they are trying to go for the old version of it that tara used in the day

[Natalya]

Well I've been toying around with the idea of an old-style ZM server that had the same settings as it did back in the days that Tara was here, but I haven't really given it enough thought but maybe we could get a server like that too because I know some people liked that way more w/o the para and no props or weapons, etc...

I guess the thing is this... ZM we have now was unable to form a solid community of players. Well, it was, but that all went down hill when Tara left and eventually it completely died. Personally I was unable to re-form that community, or to make a new one, and so after 5 months of trying I said "fuck it" and now the server is no-steamed and populated. But the thing is, its hard to form a community this way as well on the server since many of they players just sorta drift in and out, only visiting because this is one of the few no-steam servers that exists. They don't tend to stick either.

So, you have a situation where the server is completely dead on the one hand, or insanely popular on the other but in both cases a core community of players has difficulty forming. So maybe an Old-School zm server that wasn't no-steamed and didn't let STEAM_0:0:0 players in that was styled after what ZM used to be could be successful if it managed to get players from the ZM we have now who would switch between the two. The one we have now is kinda crazy and its usually too much of a blood bath for friendships to develop since its too popular (Ranked 32 among all ZM servers), but if there were a quieter one that fed off the main one then I think that would work out pretty well.

The one thing that's stopping this from ever being put into serious planning is the question of who would run it. Currently Random Hero is the only ZM Jr.Owner and he's busy with real life most of the time. I would obviously do all the server work setting it up and stuff but I wouldn't be able to admin it, considering how short-handed our current ZM server is. Thoughts anyone?

[bmwong620]

Well Nat, you could start hiring more admins to the server. Therefor, the server would be watched more and players could come back to play more. I'm not saying hire everyone to be an admin but having a few more isn't a bad idea. :P

[Natalya]

Random and I have been trying to do that but no1 has been able to make the donations.

U want admin?